My problems with LAW

[Monsy]

I understand. The pressure of defending your title can be overwhelming. Anyone who's been active enough will know what all that pressure entails—it's not all fun. But at the same time, being a champion is about more than just enjoying the journey. It's about proving you're the best and defending that title against everyone who comes your way. And if that means dealing with the pressure and scrutiny that comes with it, then so be it

I always disliked claims of “being the best” outside RP scenarios. I’m not sure why we outta try to make that concept a thing — as once we get to competing, enthusiasm gets stepped on, people get upset and it encourages a spiral of petty one-upmanship.

I’m also not sure why a holder is bearing a cross to be hit with pressure or scrutiny all the time, it sounds absurd for a story prop. Beyond the responsibility—because technically there’s vested trust in adhering to rules—of ensuring the continuity within the time frame, it should 100% be about the journey. Why we want this is simple: we get enough pressure IRL to not need more of it unnecessarily here.

his doesn't involve anyone other than the same old users. As BG himself said, the defenses are against the same old users, and that has only stalled the situation on a creative level.

And not to be rude at all to BG but it leaves out the core process of what a defence STILL is: two writers who wanna write with each other after one asked the other to write. It’s no different than a normal match. It doesn’t have to be more important than what you’re doing at all. And neither are these holders beholden to write the match you want or with you / anyone else but their choosing.

I.e: we can’t force people to write with who they don’t want to, whether noobie, veteran, ESL or engrish maestro.

There haven’t been that many holders to begin with to suggest a cabal at all. Most have not received one yet, including those who have been nothing but swell community members. Neither is there incentive or mood to gatekeep rookies from integrating or make them feel unwelcome. A few may be weary for flakiness, some might have proficiency standards — but this isn’t newbie exclusive or targeted.

Long-term users also DO tend to always have a bunch going on, and MANY people, including myself, often struggle to get their thread wishes. If you want to push this angle, you can say many lean on their friends to supply stuff — as even on Twitter RP, it’s preached that writing is better when you befriend the writer.

Everyone is a writer with limited time here, so they naturally spend it how they wish. Beyond that, you can have situations where people are full (with a diverse range of thread capacity), constantly only have one slot to spare and spending it, or you catch them in a more open period which naturally moves slow with the rate of RPs being also slow, making them seem always unavailable. This applies to champions too.

Nevertheless, I’ve never seen any deliberate effort to push rookies into a lower pecking order or displacement. I do understand the feeling that it may be the case is unpleasant, but we’re not united by seniority or age here to do such a thing.

It again just comes down to forming the agreement with the individual. And if that can’t be done: then it wasn’t meant to be.

[ThatPolishDude]

It's easy for you to say, right? Because as far as I know, this doesn't involve anyone other than the same old users. As BG himself said, the defenses are against the same old users, and that has only stalled the situation on a creative level.

I think you're trying to ignore the fact that you're not taking into account some users who make an effort to interact with certain users who left their legacy or mark on the forum, but who in one way or another feel displaced.

That's a straight up lie tho
I have never had a title match before Kyoko's raign and there are many other users that had it for the first time in raigns of her and other current champions. Aside from highfly all champos hold belts for the first time and highfly has been an exemplary user, also giving shots to many newcomers.
My question is, who have you asked for a shot and how have you done that? cause right now I'm looking for the strawman you're arguing against cause it seems you are just throwing stuff at the wall.

[APlaying]

With all due respect, Polish, Malkavia, and Monsy have clarified the matter for me, and I agree with them. You, on the other hand, are speaking ridiculously at this point.

[ThatPolishDude]

All i said is that your claims are factualy untrue and new users can get a titleshot if they want to, it has happened multiple times during current raigns. So I'm just unclear if you are speaking about a particular person when you talk about not being able to get that cause in case of most champions that is not a problem and if there is a particular person you have in mind then throwing vague statements just has us talking in circles my man.
We can't address any issue if we don't name it and at this point lightning is out the bottle, people have already felt like they have been put on blast out of no where so pussyfooting gets us nowehere.

[APlaying]

These are all things we should talk about in PRIVATE! But YOU! You blocked me and were one of the hypocrites I mentioned earlier. So you can imagine how much I want to talk to you about this.

[Monsy]

May I strongly suggest this could be a better case for DMs or just departing? If the matter is clarified for him, then I’d be sadge to see this thread heat up again with where it’s leading

[ThatPolishDude]

I am not sure what part of what i said should be talked about in private. nor why do you feel a need to blow up at me right now.
Me blocking you had nothing to do with the topic at hand and I am not gonna be discussing that further, it's entirely unrelated to anything here

edit, I did not even block you lol
got me convinced I did

[Malkavia]

Edit: a lot got posted while I was writing this apparently ^^; I feel vaguely apologetic for interrupting, weird as that sounds. Bad timing.

All i said is that your claims are factualy untrue and new users can get a titleshot if they want to, it has happened multiple times during current raigns. So I'm just unclear if you are speaking about a particular person when you talk about not being able to get that cause in case of most champions that is not a problem and if there is a particular person you have in mind then throwing vague statements just has us talking in circles my man.
We can't address any issue if we don't name it and at this point lightning is out the bottle, people have already felt like they have been put on blast out of no where so pussyfooting gets us nowehere.

So like...if I can tug this in a slightly different direction, yes, there have been around 15 defenses in ppvs over the last year, and almost every single one was with a distinct partner. Many of these were people getting their first title shots. But--

During that same time, many, many more people came and wrote and developed and left without ever touching a title match. I've never had one, and although I didn't try very seriously at any point, I doubt I would have had luck even had I thrown my back into it. Several friends are in a similar boat, and you can just look at the member logs to see it's a minority of players who ever run title matches.

And that's *fine.* That's expected. Rp-wise, belts are supposed to be scarce and prestigious. Logistically, there isn't time for the number of defenses it would take, and titleholders shouldn't feel pressured to cram in dozens of matches just to give everyone a turn. Yes, you can increase your odds by being active, by getting to know other players, and if you try long enough hard enough, you'll *probably* get a turn eventually...but no one is *guaranteed* anything, ever.

I'd avoid making this about any specific user, since I don't think it's a unique issue to anyone user. Just in general, when belts come up, I notice a recurring idea of trying to give as many people as possible a turn, and a focus on "keeping the belts moving," and who's going to be next. While that's understandable, I really think belts would be more fun if we just accepted that not everyone can or should get a title run, and that it's possible to enjoy the stories and drama that come from the title scene without directly participating much of the time.

[ThatPolishDude]

Edit: a lot got posted while I was writing this apparently ^^; I feel vaguely apologetic for interrupting, weird as that sounds. Bad timing. Ah well, may I suggest focusing back in on the topic / away from personal stuff?


So like...if I can tug this in a slightly different direction, yes, there have been around 15 defenses in ppvs over the last year, and almost every single one was with a distinct partner. Many of these were people getting their first title shots. But--

During that same time, many, many more people came and wrote and developed and left without ever touching a title match. I've never had one, and although I didn't try very seriously at any point, I doubt I would have had luck even had I thrown my back into it. Several friends are in a similar boat, and you can just look at the member logs to see it's a minority of players who ever run title matches.

And that's *fine.* That's expected. Rp-wise, belts are supposed to be scarce and prestigious. Logistically, there isn't time for the number of defenses it would take, and should titleholders shouldn't feel pressured to cram in dozens of matches just to give everyone a turn. Yes, you can increase your odds by being active, by getting to know other players, and if you try long enough hard enough, you'll *probably* get a turn eventually...but no one is *guaranteed* anything, ever.

I'd avoid making this about any specific user, since I don't think it's a unique issue to anyone user. Just in general, when belts come up, I notice a recurring idea of trying to give as many people as possible a turn, and a focus on "keeping the belts moving," and who's going to be next. While that's understandable, I really think belts would be more fun if we just accepted that not everyone can or should get a title run, and that it's possible to enjoy the stories and drama that come from the title scene without directly participating much of the time.

But that's not an issue tho, is it? If you are not interested in a title shot, you don't need to worry about any of it. If you are, go and ask, pitch an idea. I get it might feel intimidating, I still get spooked pitching ideas to my regular partners let alone when I haven't worked with someone yet so doing so with the title sucks, but if you assume you can't get it without giving it a try then you will ultimately be right by default. didn't try, didn't get and that's a logical fallacy
There will always be limits to how much the title holders can do in a raign and to what they actually want to do. Like with any thread you can't just assume the person will buy into your idea. But as long as belts are moving you can try next time.
And as you say, there are no guarantees, of course but being generally a nice person to work with and interact goes a massive way to incrising your odds. Just don't be a twat

[Malkavia]

But that's not an issue tho, is it? If you are not interested in a title shot, you don't need to worry about any of it. If you are, go and ask, pitch an idea. I get it might feel intimidating, I still get spooked pitching ideas to my regular partners let alone when I haven't worked with someone yet so doing so with the title sucks, but if you assume you can't get it without giving it a try then you will ultimately be right by default. didn't try, didn't get and that's a logical fallacy
There will always be limits to how much the title holders can do in a raign and to what they actually want to do. Like with any thread you can't just assume the person will buy into your idea. But as long as belts are moving you can try next time.
And as you say, there are no guarantees, of course but being generally a nice person to work with and interact goes a massive way to incrising your odds. Just don't be a twat

Well, what do we actually disagree about? You seem to agree that title holders shouldn't feel pressured to do big numbers or to push volume for the sake of volume. You also seem to agree that people shouldn't feel entitled to anything. I agree that you can improve your odds of getting the kinds of matches you'd like in general by being likable and active, and if you really want to do a title run, there's much you can to do to make it more likely to happen.

new users can get a titleshot if they want to

If we disagree about anything, I think it's in the subtext here. I agree this is literally true in the sense that every freshman in high school could in theory make the soccer team. Some will want to and succeed. Some won't even be interested and won't try. But some will try--and won't get what they want. The question is how big is that group of people, and to what degree is it "their fault" for being a twat?

To return to my point in my last post, I'm not talking about people who aren't interested in a title shot. I'm saying I think there are a significant number of people who'd like to be part of the title scene but who haven't had their shot yet, and who may not get their shot for a long while yet, and who may even never get a shot. I'd argue a lot of that comes from people who are pretty good members—who aren't "twats." I think part of the reason belts and accolades and tournaments get so thorny every time they come up is because you have that kind of undercurrent of people who haven't gotten the shine they want yet.

So, what do we do about it? My argument is we *can't* logistically fix it by giving everyone what they want because belts are and must be too scarce. Therefore, the only solution that works is to try adjust the attitude we take towards belts. Part of that, I think, is to focus more on the stories happening with the belts now and less on "who's next" or "when is the belt changing hands."