Canon and Legitimacy of matches

[Malkavia]

It sounds like the setup you have with Winner matches what Poet suggested here:

Does it count for PPV/title eligibility? I don't think it should. Can we use it to add to a character's official record? I lean no here too.

Which seems like a good policy for cross-community content in general to me. One minor quibble though:

titles from LAW can be defended on WFPW shows and vice versa, but those matches usually end up with the champion retaining and even then, they would be very rare.

While I don't think this has been given as explicit policy, my assumption is LAW titles can only change hands as a result of LAW threads written by the champion's author and their partners (or Winner fiat if circumstances call for it). If I'm wrong on this, others can correct me.

I imagine a title holder could choose to use a WFPW show as a setting for a LAW thread if Winner and everyone involved signed off on it, and I'm guessing that's what you were describing here, but just to be clear I don't imagine it would be kosher for a title to change hands as a result of a cross-canonical story done any other way.

[Pegasus]

I never had any expectations or any thought that LAW titles would change hands via anything in WFPW. I’m just saying titles can be defended over there if the user chooses and those matches would most likely be matches where the champion retains, because the champion holder/user has plans for the title reign to end in LAW. LAW Titles being defended in WFPW would just be a little treat instead of being a huge title change, but they would more be a rare happening as to not pad any records or reigns.

[Deskfan45]

you definitely cannot start ten matches and try to use that to say your character meets the requirements for any sort of event with a completed match threshold.

This is a non-issue since afaik incomplete matches have never been counted towards official qualifications, and there are no plans to change that or to even consider changing that.

I know that, but the question was asked lol.

[Malkavia]

So to summarize what I've seen so far:

-- People have different preferences about how to handle kayfabe reference to ooc incomplete matches. There is no explicit policy, but good communication with partners about their preferences is as always a good idea.

-- IM rps are similarly somewhat gray and can probably be handled similarly through personal preference and communication. My understanding is that they don't count towards qualifying for official events / official records, though I'm open to discussing that if that's controversial. Edit: unless they are published as a LAW thread. As ever, I imagine winner and the event team will be flexible / responsive to individual situations here.

-- Incomplete matches do not and will not count for the purposes of anything official, such as qualifications for events.

-- some stories involve cross-community content (WFPW, AFW, etc). How much people choose to engage with these is up to individual users. However, accomplishments at promotions outside of LAW have no official weight as part of characters' official LAW records, qualifications, etc.

Does this summary address everything people were wondering about? And does anyone have any serious reservations about any of these opinions? Because it seems like people mostly agree on these except for some nuance that can be chalked up to individual preference.

[Deskfan45]

I feel like everything here is spot on, Mal. Though I do believe IM rps, if posted to the board and recognized as canon, should count officially. Besides that though, you hit the hanmer on the head.

[FreestylePoet]

Malk's summary of the thread is correct in my view, except like Desk said, IM RPs don't have any meaningful distinction anymore once they're posted to the board with the consent of both users. At that point they're the same as any other thread.

I also agree with all the points in Malk's summary (and by extension, much of the consensus of the thread), for what it's worth.

[winner3]

I didn't expect this thread to get as much traction as it did. I've had a few conversations with folks over my personal feelings on some of the points brought up. I'm happy to see that some users have reached a consensus. I appreciate the summary Mal offered in her previous post.

I don't think adding my own personal stances will do anything to bring the discussion to a close or facilitate productivity. So instead, as the person in charge of making and enforcing the rules, I'm going to try and succinctly how I intend to treat the concerns that were raised throughout this thread

• WFPW Canonicity - I've spoken with Wanderer about this extensively and I feel the discourse here lines up with everything he and I have agreed upon. Matches that take place on WFPW shows do not count towards eligibility or LAW PPVs/Qualifications for Events/used in an official capacity for titles and so on. Of course, users can have their characters acknowledge happenings in WFPW, do cross-promotional stories, and so on (assuming everyone in the RP is cool with doing those things). Mal's assumption that LAW Titles can only change hands in LAW threads/RP's with participation from multiple users is correct. WFPW titles can be exchanged in LAW threads if users desire and if the circumstances align.

• IMRP - IM/Discord RP's using LAW characters/continuity/etc. that are posted to LAW with consent from all users involved are treated as canon/part of LAW's continuity.

• Incomplete Matches - Incomplete matches, of course, do not count in any "official" capacities for the sake of PPV/Event eligibility, character records, and so on

• Referencing incomplete matches and threads - While different users have different stances on when it is or isn't okay to reference incomplete threads, I plan to conduct myself as follows: if I become aware of an instance in which a user references a match or thread as complete/having happened already/what have you, and I learn that one or more users involved in the thread(s) referenced take issue with this, I will raise the concern with the offending party in the hopes of coming to a conclusion through civil conversation. If the offending party won't budge or continues to exhibit this behavior and users continue to take issue with it, I will take action to discipline the offending party.
  Things will probably never get to that point. A lot of how types of situations come across to others involved in the RP's boils down to interpersonal relationships between users. Most folks in this particular thread probably don't care if someone they know references an incomplete thread they've done with another user (provided there are no outright spoilers). But that's certainly not the case across the board. It's happened multiple times in my experience where a user references threads and matches as having occurred in the past or otherwise implies that those RP's are complete via LAW Twitter when the threads themselves have barely gotten started, leading to the users involved in the threads referenced to raise concerns and complaints to me about it. It's happened when users spoil match outcomes via Twitter or in a thread. It's happened even without hard spoilers. I'm trying to highlight that no matter how anyone feels about referencing incomplete threads, this type of scenario has absolutely occurred and I feel that any given user is well within their rights to express concern over it.
  So I'm going to dissuade this and take action going forward if I learn of future instances. I feel it's a small ask to talk to your RP partners and clear these things with them before the fact, especially if you don't have any idea how they might feel about the thread being referenced before it's really gotten anywhere. Again, this doesn't happen often, but this is how I will choose to approach the situation when it does. I hope that doesn't bother anyone and I hope I've managed to address all of the major concerns expressed in this thread.

[pikazard]

Honestly I think whether or not a match is canon or whether or not a match counts towards qualifications are completely different matters. I think as long as all participants of a match are okay with it you should be able to count anything you want as canon.

Can uncompleted threads be counted as canon? Yes. Can they count towards PPV or title qualifications? No.

Can DM RPs be counted as canon? Yes, even if they were never posted to LAW, so long as both users want it to be. Can they count towards qualifications? No.

If you let someone else control your character and RP a match should that be counted as canon? Yes. Can that count towards qualifications? Certainly not.

Hell, with the caveat of requiring the other users permission I'd even go as far as to say that matches depicted in commissioned wrestling art can count as canon if you both really want it to. It just wouldn't count towards qualifications.